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QDRO Question

  • 1.  QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 12:23 PM

    Hello listmates,

    Have a new client who was divorced in 1997. Husband was a participant in the Police and Fireman’s Retirement system as he was an officer in North Jersey.  Pursuant to the PSA, the husband was to “divide the pension by QDRO which shall provide for an actuarial equal share of the pension acquired during coverture commencing on the date of the marriage, November 7, 1988 and ending on the filing date of the divorce, September 25, 1995.”  

    The language above is all that is provided. Not sure if present value should be applied based on the "actuarial share" requirement or should she only be entitled to what accrued during the marriage between 1988 and 1995.   Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. 

    Best,

    Eric B. Hannum

    ------------------------------
    Eric Hannum Esq.
    Jackson NJ
    (732)370-9596
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 12:34 PM

    I think what this says is that the non-participant is entitled to 50% of whatever benefit was acquired from the date of the marriage until the date of the complaint.

    However, police officers' pension are valued differently because they do not contribute to social security from their pay.

     

    Debra F. Schneider Esq.

    411 Hackensack Ave, Suite 200

    Hackensack, NJ 07601

    Attorney/Mediator

    201-445-8381






  • 3.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 03:06 PM
    << However, police officers' pension are valued differently because they do not contribute to social security from their pay.>>

    Very true. Keep this in mind, everyone, when running the CSG. The guidelines (software) automatically includes the SS deduction - you have to remove it manually or you're understating the officer's income.


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  • 4.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 12:38 PM

    Eric:

     

    Think you're talking about apples and oranges.  While the "actuarial equal share of the pension" doesn't make a lot of sense to me, it is clearly meant to be a Marx formula distribution.  Present value was never contemplated IMHO.

     

    Regards.

     

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  • 5.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 12:55 PM

    While the New Jersey State-administered retirement systems are exempt from the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA), the Division of Pensions and Benefits will attempt to follow the provisions of ERISA, as related to the Retirement Equity Act of 1985 (REACT) provided such mandates do not violate applicable New Jersey laws or administrative rules. Although your pension is normally exempt from any liens, the Division of Pensions and Benefits will honor court orders for child support, alimony, or equitable distribution in cases of divorce or dissolution of a civil union. 

    A Domestic Relations Order is a court order, separate and apart from a Judgment of Divorce. A Domestic Relations Order provides for the equitable distribution of pension and related benefits upon the dissolution of a marriage or civil union. A Domestic Relations Order that has been reviewed and approved by the Division of Pensions and Benefits and signed by a judge is then deemed a Qualified Domestic Relations Order (QDRO). 

    REQUIREMENTS FOR AN ACCEPTABLE QDRO 

    The language within the acceptable Domestic Relations Order must clearly impose an obligation upon the Division to withhold a portion of a participant/member’s retirement benefits for payment to an alternate payee. 

    The description of the participant and the alternate payee must be clear and specific, i.e. full names and addresses as opposed to references to “spouse” or “former spouse,” etc. 

    The Domestic Relations Order must contain specific names, as previously mentioned, including: 

    • Names, addresses, and Social Security numbers of both the member and the alternate payee: 

    • The specific name of the retirement system in which the member is enrolled. State administered systems include:

     — Public Employees’ Retirement System of New Jersey

     — Teachers’ Pension and Annuity Fund of New Jersey

     — Police and Firemen’s Retirement System of New Jersey

     — State Police Retirement System of New Jersey

     — Judicial Retirement System of New Jersey

     — Alternate Benefit Program of New Jersey

     — Defined Contribution Retirement Program of New Jersey

     — New Jersey State Employees Deferred Compensation Plan

     — Supplemental Annuity Collective Trust of New Jersey

     The Domestic Relations Order must state a specific amount to be withheld for payment to the alternate payee. Acceptable examples include:

     • A specific dollar amount; or

     • A specific percentage of the member’s benefit; or

    • An amount to be determined through the application of a coverture fraction. A coverture fraction calculation utilizes a specific percentage of the member’s gross monthly retirement allowance, multiplied by a coverture fraction where the numerator is the total number of years and months that the parties were married while the member was a participant in the retirement system and the denominator is the total number of years and months the member has participated in the retirement system. 

    To insure proper tax reporting, the Domestic Relations Order must indicate whether the withholdings are for alimony, support, or equitable distribution payments. The form of payment will determine how the payments are reported for tax purposes.

    ------------------------------
    Curtis Romanowski Esq.
    Senior Attorney - Proprietor
    Metuchen NJ
    (732)603-8585



  • 6.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 01:45 PM

    Eric,

    Is your client the Wife?  Is the Husband still employed by the State?  Has he entered pay status?  Were the parties intending that the Wife receive a lump sum as opposed to monthly payments once Husband entered pay status?

    With a barebones QDRO provision, it is impossible to know what the intent of the parties were, but the length of time that has expired may provide impetus for the Court to provide the alternate payee with what would have been available to her had the QDRO been prepared shortly after the entry of the FJD.  I would suggest you look at a QDRO checklist (available online) for a PERS plan; that should give you a better feel for what you need to do and what information you need to best protect the interests of your client. 

    ------------------------------
    Nancy Marchioni Esq.
    Middlesex NJ
    (732)667-3668



  • 7.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 01:53 PM
    Client is the wife and husband is in pay status.  Not employed with he state but was a police officer.  He actually went into pay status two months ago and never had the DRO prepared.  Resultantly, I am trying to get the process finalized before something bad happens.    
     
     
     
    On Tue, Nov 03, 2015 at 01:45 PM, Nancy Marchioni via New Jersey State Bar Association wrote:
     
     

    Family Law

      Post New Message
    Re: QDRO Question
    Reply to Group Reply to Sender
    Nov 3, 2015 1:45 PM
    Nancy B Marchioni, Esq

    Eric,

    Is your client the Wife?  Is the Husband still employed by the State?  Has he entered pay status?  Were the parties intending that the Wife receive a lump sum as opposed to monthly payments once Husband entered pay status?

    With a barebones QDRO provision, it is impossible to know what the intent of the parties were, but the length of time that has expired may provide impetus for the Court to provide the alternate payee with what would have been available to her had the QDRO been prepared shortly after the entry of the FJD.  I would suggest you look at a QDRO checklist (available online) for a PERS plan; that should give you a better feel for what you need to do and what information you need to best protect the interests of your client. 

    ------------------------------
    Nancy Marchioni Esq.
    Middlesex NJ
    (732)667-3668
    ------------------------------
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    Original Message------

    Eric,

    Is your client the Wife?  Is the Husband still employed by the State?  Has he entered pay status?  Were the parties intending that the Wife receive a lump sum as opposed to monthly payments once Husband entered pay status?

    With a barebones QDRO provision, it is impossible to know what the intent of the parties were, but the length of time that has expired may provide impetus for the Court to provide the alternate payee with what would have been available to her had the QDRO been prepared shortly after the entry of the FJD.  I would suggest you look at a QDRO checklist (available online) for a PERS plan; that should give you a better feel for what you need to do and what information you need to best protect the interests of your client. 

    ------------------------------
    Nancy Marchioni Esq.
    Middlesex NJ
    (732)667-3668
    ------------------------------


  • 8.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 01:18 PM

    First of all, it's not a QDRO.

     

    Secondly, I would think if you are looking for a DRO then it's 50% of the pension accrued between the date of marriage and the date of filing, and then you have to decide if a Marx formula should be applied.

     

    Not sure why they used the words "actuarial equivalent".

     

    By way of a plug, I am moderating part of the NJAJ matrimonial law seminar at the Meadowlands Hilton on Thursday, Nov. 19, 2015 on division of all types of government and military pensions. My panelists are Lois Fried and Allison Fried. The rest of the program is equally good. Hope to see many of you there.

     

    Robert E. Goldstein, Esq.
    Drescher & Cheslow, P.A.

    610 Bridge Plaza Drive

    Manalapan, NJ 07726

    (732) 972-1600
    Fax (732) 972-0038
    E-mail: [email protected]
    Member, Middlesex County Bar Association, New Jersey Association for Justice and New Jersey State Bar Association

         

     

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  • 9.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 01:52 PM

    Eric: You have a tiger by the tale. It sounds like no QDRO was entered even though the parties were divorced 17 years ago. Since no provision was made for your client to receive the equivalent of the present value of the pension 17 years ago, the paries agreed to a " deferred distribution " of the marital portion of the pension. The difference in methods  is explained in Moore v. Moore 114NJ 147. Dividing pensions by deferred distribution is explained in Marx v. Marx  265njsuper418. Your first step here is to get a QDRO entered . Hire a good expert to draft one for you. I'd try Troyan  at 877-448-4867. Next notify the fund your client has an interest in the fund and send them PSA and JOD. BTW this will be a time consuming process. You may have to make a motion. Frank Grather

     

     

     

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  • 10.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 03:06 PM
    As Rob pointed out, it's not a QDRO - it's a DRO when it's a State plan at issue (Curtis listed them out). Not exactly sure what the difference is that causes the "Qualified" to be dropped (although I'm sure the answer is absolutely fascinating and not in any way yawn-worthy). I think it's because State plans aren't subject to ERISA, but not sure why that causes the Q to drop.

    Anyway, I also thought it looked like a distinction without a difference to use the "actuary" phrase, but there's some authority out there discussing an actuarial distribution, which appears to be different from the Marx formula. It looks like they specifically don't take future increases into account when dividing the pension. Looks like a slightly worse deal for Wife. I'm no expert, but here's some info - check bottom of page 3 to page 4: http://dpdlaw.com/Pensions_sharing_talks_Actuary.pdf .

    If he's been collecting for a few months, you're going to have to address his repayment of whatever funds she lost (that he received when getting the whole, undivided pension rather than just his share). If it was alimony, tax-effect it and offer a settlement / compromise amount for what he got. Get it done before the number grows...


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  • 11.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 03:14 PM

    Yawn-worthy or not, the Q is dropped because state and federal retirement plans aren't subject to ERISA and therefore aren't Qualified Plans. We can thank Sharon Ransavage once again for bringing the NJ case many years ago that made it possible for us to enter enforceable DROs.

     

    Pamela M. Copeland, Esq.

    Certified Matrimonial Attorney

    Divorce and Family Mediator

    Collaborative Professional

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    Watchung, NJ 07069

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  • 12.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-04-2015 12:14 PM

    ERISA and the REA applies to "qualified" plans Once the order is entered by the Court it becomes a DRO and once the plan "qualifies" it then it's a QDRO. Moore deals with future increases. That's why you need an expert to draft your order – to provide for stuff like that.    

     






  • 13.  RE: QDRO Question

    Posted 11-03-2015 03:07 PM
    Hi Eric:

    I don't believe that police and fire pensions are subject to QDROs, but you can call the Division on Pensions and Benefits to confirm. You may need to seek an equitable remedy to address the shortcomings of the PSA.

    Roz

    Rosalyn A. Metzger LLC
    Attorney-Mediator
    P. O. Box 5104
    One Leigh Street
    Clinton, New Jersey 08809
    (908) 238-0099
    www.mediate.com/rmetzger

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