NJSBA Family Law Section

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussions: LGBT Rights Section and Family Law .
-------------------------------------------
I was pleased to discuss open issues one year after marriage equality came to NJ with a reporter for the NJ Law Journal, but dismayed at significant misinformation imparted by others quoted.

Unfortunately, Ms. Weinberger is inaccurate in her statement that irreconcilable differences are not available for civil union dissolutions.  The AOC issued a letter in 2007 directing the Courts to accept complaints grounded in irreconcilable differences as both then Governor Corzine's signing statement and the dictates of Lewis vs. Harris required equal application of the divorce causes of action.  I and other family lawyers who routinely represent LGBT clients have known this and spoken about this to the courts and our colleagues for years.  While I agree that the statutes need to be "corrected" to make this clear to the inexperienced practitioner, there is no reason why any lawyer should not be moving forward with irreconcilable differences causes if appropriate and no reason any Court should deny a gay or lesbian litigant a right granted to a married person when seeking the dissolution of a civil union.  To do so places the civil union partner in a position of great prejudice - either forcing a separation period that might cause significant financial or personal harm or force reasonable and decent people to make allegations of extreme cruelty that are either false or that distort and damage an otherwise amicable dissolution.

Mr. Rubin is also incorrect that unlimited marital giving is not available to NJ same-sex couples in a civil union.  He would be correct about domestic partners, but civil union couples have exactly the same estate and inheritance tax advantages as married couples.

The failures of members of the Bar to clearly understand the nuance and in some cases blatant application of the law to same-sex couples is disheartening and costs same-sex couples dearly in time, money and emotion when hiring lawyers who want to do this work, but have not built a foundation on which to do  the work well. The LGBT Rights Section of the State Bar has an annual ICLE program; the Section has an active list serve on which members of the Bar can ask questions and get answers from their colleagues with significant experience and there are national organizations such as Lambda Legal, National Center for Lesbian Rights and ACLU that provide support for practitioners.  I urge my colleagues who see same-sex couples as an emerging practice area to think twice before providing services if they do not have the foundation of knowledge.  

-------------------------------------------
Debra Guston Esq.
Glen Rock NJ
(201)447-6660
-------------------------------------------

Does Bergen allow divorce on the papers?

Gary L. Borger, Esquire
Borger Matez, P.A.
1415 Marlton Pike (Route 70) East, Suite 305
Cherry Hill, NJ 08034-2210
Office phone: (856) 424-3444
Cell: (856) 308-6158
Fax: (856) 424-3690
E-mail: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Website: www.njfamilylaw.net<http: www.njfamilylaw.net/="">
P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.


Original Message------

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussions: LGBT Rights Section and Family Law .
-------------------------------------------
I was pleased to discuss open issues one year after marriage equality came to NJ with a reporter for the NJ Law Journal, but dismayed at significant misinformation imparted by others quoted.

Unfortunately, Ms. Weinberger is inaccurate in her statement that irreconcilable differences are not available for civil union dissolutions.  The AOC issued a letter in 2007 directing the Courts to accept complaints grounded in irreconcilable differences as both then Governor Corzine's signing statement and the dictates of Lewis vs. Harris required equal application of the divorce causes of action.  I and other family lawyers who routinely represent LGBT clients have known this and spoken about this to the courts and our colleagues for years.  While I agree that the statutes need to be "corrected" to make this clear to the inexperienced practitioner, there is no reason why any lawyer should not be moving forward with irreconcilable differences causes if appropriate and no reason any Court should deny a gay or lesbian litigant a right granted to a married person when seeking the dissolution of a civil union.  To do so places the civil union partner in a position of great prejudice - either forcing a separation period that might cause significant financial or personal harm or force reasonable and decent people to make allegations of extreme cruelty that are either false or that distort and damage an otherwise amicable dissolution.

Mr. Rubin is also incorrect that unlimited marital giving is not available to NJ same-sex couples in a civil union.  He would be correct about domestic partners, but civil union couples have exactly the same estate and inheritance tax advantages as married couples.

The failures of members of the Bar to clearly understand the nuance and in some cases blatant application of the law to same-sex couples is disheartening and costs same-sex couples dearly in time, money and emotion when hiring lawyers who want to do this work, but have not built a foundation on which to do  the work well. The LGBT Rights Section of the State Bar has an annual ICLE program; the Section has an active list serve on which members of the Bar can ask questions and get answers from their colleagues with significant experience and there are national organizations such as Lambda Legal, National Center for Lesbian Rights and ACLU that provide support for practitioners.  I urge my colleagues who see same-sex couples as an emerging practice area to think twice before providing services if they do not have the foundation of knowledge.  

-------------------------------------------
Debra Guston Esq.
Glen Rock NJ
(201)447-6660
-------------------------------------------</http:></mailto:[email protected]>

Not that I am aware of.



John L. Weichsel

Member of N.J. and N.Y. Bar

79 Main St.

Hackensack, NJ 07601

201 488 1400 (T)

201 488 3970 (F)

<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]



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Original Message------

Does Bergen allow divorce on the papers?

Gary L. Borger, Esquire
Borger Matez, P.A.
1415 Marlton Pike (Route 70) East, Suite 305
Cherry Hill, NJ 08034-2210
Office phone: (856) 424-3444
Cell: (856) 308-6158
Fax: (856) 424-3690
E-mail: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Website: www.njfamilylaw.net<http: www.njfamilylaw.net/="">
P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

</http:></mailto:[email protected]></mailto:[email protected]>

Thank you, Deb, for bringing to light some of the incorrect statements made within the recent Law Journal article. It is most certainly disheartening that same information was published and disseminated to our colleagues. Perhaps the Law Journal would be willing to publish a corrective summary. That would certainly be helpful and allow the full audience exposed to the first article to receive the proper information.

Also, if you could cross post your comments to the LGBT Rights section listserv, that would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Jodi

Jodi Argentino, Esq.
Argentino & Jacobs, LLC


Original Message------

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussions: LGBT Rights Section and Family Law .
-------------------------------------------
I was pleased to discuss open issues one year after marriage equality came to NJ with a reporter for the NJ Law Journal, but dismayed at significant misinformation imparted by others quoted.

Unfortunately, Ms. Weinberger is inaccurate in her statement that irreconcilable differences are not available for civil union dissolutions.  The AOC issued a letter in 2007 directing the Courts to accept complaints grounded in irreconcilable differences as both then Governor Corzine's signing statement and the dictates of Lewis vs. Harris required equal application of the divorce causes of action.  I and other family lawyers who routinely represent LGBT clients have known this and spoken about this to the courts and our colleagues for years.  While I agree that the statutes need to be "corrected" to make this clear to the inexperienced practitioner, there is no reason why any lawyer should not be moving forward with irreconcilable differences causes if appropriate and no reason any Court should deny a gay or lesbian litigant a right granted to a married person when seeking the dissolution of a civil union.  To do so places the civil union partner in a position of great prejudice - either forcing a separation period that might cause significant financial or personal harm or force reasonable and decent people to make allegations of extreme cruelty that are either false or that distort and damage an otherwise amicable dissolution.

Mr. Rubin is also incorrect that unlimited marital giving is not available to NJ same-sex couples in a civil union.  He would be correct about domestic partners, but civil union couples have exactly the same estate and inheritance tax advantages as married couples.

The failures of members of the Bar to clearly understand the nuance and in some cases blatant application of the law to same-sex couples is disheartening and costs same-sex couples dearly in time, money and emotion when hiring lawyers who want to do this work, but have not built a foundation on which to do  the work well. The LGBT Rights Section of the State Bar has an annual ICLE program; the Section has an active list serve on which members of the Bar can ask questions and get answers from their colleagues with significant experience and there are national organizations such as Lambda Legal, National Center for Lesbian Rights and ACLU that provide support for practitioners.  I urge my colleagues who see same-sex couples as an emerging practice area to think twice before providing services if they do not have the foundation of knowledge.  

-------------------------------------------
Debra Guston Esq.
Glen Rock NJ
(201)447-6660
-------------------------------------------

Jodi,

Please see my posting dated November 1.  For clarification, Mary Gallagher's NJLJ article insofar as my  statements regarding civil unions was absolutely accurate.  I will send you my posting offline so those having seen it already need not be burdened with a duplicate.    

All of this was cross-posted on the LGBT Rights section as well over the past few days.  
-------------------------------------------
Bari Weinberger Esq.
Parsippany NJ
(973)520-8822
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-31-2014 18:41
From: Jodi Argentino
Subject: NJ Law Journal Article

Thank you, Deb, for bringing to light some of the incorrect statements made within the recent Law Journal article. It is most certainly disheartening that same information was published and disseminated to our colleagues. Perhaps the Law Journal would be willing to publish a corrective summary. That would certainly be helpful and allow the full audience exposed to the first article to receive the proper information.

Also, if you could cross post your comments to the LGBT Rights section listserv, that would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Jodi

Jodi Argentino, Esq.
Argentino & Jacobs, LLC

Debra Guston's criticism of me is inaccurate and misplaced. 

The article that Mary Gallagher posted in the NJLJ specifically reported that I believe there is a need for "legislative action to clarify matters" insofar as civil unions are concerned.  I stand by that statement.  Ms. Guston was also quoted in this same article as saying "...[t]here is a need to clarify the status of civil unions..."  She and I are actually aligned in our positions. 

I have been drafting civil union pleadings utilizing the grounds of irreconcilable differences and know that the ground is in fact  available.  Still, the fact of the matter is that the civil union statute only provides that 18 month separation is available; not irreconcilable differences.  When our esteemed colleagues are unaware as to what grounds are available to include in civil union dissolution pleadings, they will inevitably rely upon the statute to determine which ground(s) to use.  These practitioners may not conduct research to uncover a 2007 letter issued by the AOC or research case law before filing a complaint or counterclaim.  The statute itself needs to provide unambiguous information.

Ms. Guston and I agree that the statute needs to be updated so I candidly do not understand her public disparagement of me when we are of the same opinion.  We are all fighting for equality here - let's remain unified for this vital objective.  

------------------------------------------
Bari Weinberger Esq.
Parsippany NJ
(973)520-8822
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-31-2014 14:18
From: Debra Guston
Subject: NJ Law Journal Article

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussions: LGBT Rights Section and Family Law .
-------------------------------------------
I was pleased to discuss open issues one year after marriage equality came to NJ with a reporter for the NJ Law Journal, but dismayed at significant misinformation imparted by others quoted.

Unfortunately, Ms. Weinberger is inaccurate in her statement that irreconcilable differences are not available for civil union dissolutions.  The AOC issued a letter in 2007 directing the Courts to accept complaints grounded in irreconcilable differences as both then Governor Corzine's signing statement and the dictates of Lewis vs. Harris required equal application of the divorce causes of action.  I and other family lawyers who routinely represent LGBT clients have known this and spoken about this to the courts and our colleagues for years.  While I agree that the statutes need to be "corrected" to make this clear to the inexperienced practitioner, there is no reason why any lawyer should not be moving forward with irreconcilable differences causes if appropriate and no reason any Court should deny a gay or lesbian litigant a right granted to a married person when seeking the dissolution of a civil union.  To do so places the civil union partner in a position of great prejudice - either forcing a separation period that might cause significant financial or personal harm or force reasonable and decent people to make allegations of extreme cruelty that are either false or that distort and damage an otherwise amicable dissolution.

Mr. Rubin is also incorrect that unlimited marital giving is not available to NJ same-sex couples in a civil union.  He would be correct about domestic partners, but civil union couples have exactly the same estate and inheritance tax advantages as married couples.

The failures of members of the Bar to clearly understand the nuance and in some cases blatant application of the law to same-sex couples is disheartening and costs same-sex couples dearly in time, money and emotion when hiring lawyers who want to do this work, but have not built a foundation on which to do  the work well. The LGBT Rights Section of the State Bar has an annual ICLE program; the Section has an active list serve on which members of the Bar can ask questions and get answers from their colleagues with significant experience and there are national organizations such as Lambda Legal, National Center for Lesbian Rights and ACLU that provide support for practitioners.  I urge my colleagues who see same-sex couples as an emerging practice area to think twice before providing services if they do not have the foundation of knowledge.  

-------------------------------------------
Debra Guston Esq.
Glen Rock NJ
(201)447-6660
-------------------------------------------

My purpose in writing my comments yesterday were not to disparage but to educate, as has been my "mission" for years. My views are confirmed by Ms. Weinberger's reply in that she, too, understands that practitioners don't look "to uncover" the history and AOC direction on the issue of civil union dissolution. For this reason I have advocated for all lawyers working with LGBT clients to join our Bar Section, attend CLEs on point and communicate with experienced counsel. Issues such as the cause of action for CU dissolution should not be a secret guarded by those with the intellectual desire to look - we should be talking about the tools to use as well as the need for clarity.

-------------------------------------------
Debra Guston Esq.
Glen Rock NJ
(201)447-6660
-------------------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 11/1/2014 9:11:22 AM
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: NJ Law Journal Article

Debra Guston's criticism of me is inaccurate and misplaced. 

The article that Mary Gallagher posted in the NJLJ specifically reported that I believe there is a need for "legislative action to clarify matters" insofar as civil unions are concerned.  I stand by that statement.  Ms. Guston was also quoted in this same article as saying "...[t]here is a need to clarify the status of civil unions..."  She and I are actually aligned in our positions. 

I have been drafting civil union pleadings utilizing the grounds of irreconcilable differences and know that the ground is in fact  available.  Still, the fact of the matter is that the civil union statute only provides that 18 month separation is available; not irreconcilable differences.  When our esteemed colleagues are unaware as to what grounds are available to include in civil union dissolution pleadings, they will inevitably rely upon the statute to determine which ground(s) to use.  These practitioners may not conduct research to uncover a 2007 letter issued by the AOC or research case law before filing a complaint or counterclaim.  The statute itself needs to provide unambiguous information. Ms. Guston and I agree that the statute needs to be updated so I candidly do not understand her public disparagement of me when we are of the same opinion.  We are all fighting for equality here - let's remain unified for this vital objective.  

------------------------------------------ Bari Weinberger Esq. Parsippany NJ (973)520-8822 -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 10-31-2014 14:18 From: Debra Guston Subject: NJ Law Journal Article This message has been cross posted to the following Discussions: LGBT Rights Section and Family Law . ------------------------------------------- I was pleased to discuss open issues one year after marriage equality came to NJ with a reporter for the NJ Law Journal, but dismayed at significant misinformation imparted by others quoted. Unfortunately, Ms. Weinberger is inaccurate in her statement that irreconcilable differences are not available for civil union dissolutions.  The AOC issued a letter in 2007 directing the Courts to accept complaints grounded in irreconcilable differences as both then Governor Corzine's signing statement and the dictates of Lewis vs. Harris required equal application of the divorce causes of action.  I and other family lawyers who routinely represent LGBT clients have known this and spoken about this to the courts and our colleagues for years.  While I agree that the statutes need to be "corrected" to make this clear to the inexperienced practitioner, there is no reason why any lawyer should not be moving forward with irreconcilable differences causes if appropriate and no reason any Court should deny a gay or lesbian litigant a right granted to a married person when seeking the dissolution of a civil union.  To do so places the civil union partner in a position of great prejudice - either forcing a separation period that might cause significant financial or personal harm or force reasonable and decent people to make allegations of extreme cruelty that are either false or that distort and damage an otherwise amicable dissolution. Mr. Rubin is also incorrect that unlimited marital giving is not available to NJ same-sex couples in a civil union.  He would be correct about domestic partners, but civil union couples have exactly the same estate and inheritance tax advantages as married couples. The failures of members of the Bar to clearly understand the nuance and in some cases blatant application of the law to same-sex couples is disheartening and costs same-sex couples dearly in time, money and emotion when hiring lawyers who want to do this work, but have not built a foundation on which to do  the work well. The LGBT Rights Section of the State Bar has an annual ICLE program; the Section has an active list serve on which members of the Bar can ask questions and get answers from their colleagues with significant experience and there are national organizations such as Lambda Legal, National Center for Lesbian Rights and ACLU that provide support for practitioners.  I urge my colleagues who see same-sex couples as an emerging practice area to think twice before providing services if they do not have the foundation of knowledge.   ------------------------------------------- Debra Guston Esq. Glen Rock NJ (201)447-6660 -------------------------------------------

Way to go Deb!

Thank you for providing accurate info-can't wait to see the article!
-------------------------------------------
Rachel Cotrino Esq.
Jackson NJ
(732)987-9966
-------------------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 10/31/2014 2:18:17 PM
From: [email protected]
Subject: NJ Law Journal Article

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussions: LGBT Rights Section and Family Law . ------------------------------------------- I was pleased to discuss open issues one year after marriage equality came to NJ with a reporter for the NJ Law Journal, but dismayed at significant misinformation imparted by others quoted. Unfortunately, Ms. Weinberger is inaccurate in her statement that irreconcilable differences are not available for civil union dissolutions.  The AOC issued a letter in 2007 directing the Courts to accept complaints grounded in irreconcilable differences as both then Governor Corzine's signing statement and the dictates of Lewis vs. Harris required equal application of the divorce causes of action.  I and other family lawyers who routinely represent LGBT clients have known this and spoken about this to the courts and our colleagues for years.  While I agree that the statutes need to be "corrected" to make this clear to the inexperienced practitioner, there is no reason why any lawyer should not be moving forward with irreconcilable differences causes if appropriate and no reason any Court should deny a gay or lesbian litigant a right granted to a married person when seeking the dissolution of a civil union.  To do so places the civil union partner in a position of great prejudice - either forcing a separation period that might cause significant financial or personal harm or force reasonable and decent people to make allegations of extreme cruelty that are either false or that distort and damage an otherwise amicable dissolution. Mr. Rubin is also incorrect that unlimited marital giving is not available to NJ same-sex couples in a civil union.  He would be correct about domestic partners, but civil union couples have exactly the same estate and inheritance tax advantages as married couples. The failures of members of the Bar to clearly understand the nuance and in some cases blatant application of the law to same-sex couples is disheartening and costs same-sex couples dearly in time, money and emotion when hiring lawyers who want to do this work, but have not built a foundation on which to do  the work well. The LGBT Rights Section of the State Bar has an annual ICLE program; the Section has an active list serve on which members of the Bar can ask questions and get answers from their colleagues with significant experience and there are national organizations such as Lambda Legal, National Center for Lesbian Rights and ACLU that provide support for practitioners.  I urge my colleagues who see same-sex couples as an emerging practice area to think twice before providing services if they do not have the foundation of knowledge.   ------------------------------------------- Debra Guston Esq. Glen Rock NJ (201)447-6660 -------------------------------------------