NJSBA Family Law Section

I know this has been discussed before but I do not recall what the answer was.  I have a potential client who lives in Pennsylvania and always has lived there.  She had a civil union in New Jersey some time ago and was told it cannot be dissolved in Pa. because they do not recognize civil unions there although same sex marriage is now legal in Pa.  Can the civil union be dissolved in NJ and if so what county would have jurisdiction?

-------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Karl Esq.
Cherry Hill NJ
(856)486-0707
-------------------------------------------

Good question.


Original Message------

I know this has been discussed before but I do not recall what the answer was.  I have a potential client who lives in Pennsylvania and always has lived there.  She had a civil union in New Jersey some time ago and was told it cannot be dissolved in Pa. because they do not recognize civil unions there although same sex marriage is now legal in Pa.  Can the civil union be dissolved in NJ and if so what county would have jurisdiction?

-------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Karl Esq.
Cherry Hill NJ
(856)486-0707
-------------------------------------------

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Sharon Clancy via New Jersey State Bar


Original Message------

Good question.

It is my understanding that she cannot dissolve it in NJ because she does not meet the residency requirement.  This used to be a common problem in the days when Vermont was the only state to have civil unions and couples would travel up there for a romantic weekend, enter into the civil union, return back to NJ then later seek to dissolve the civil union if the relationship ended.  (Before Vermont dropped the minimum residency requirement a couple years ago.)

I realize she is in a bit of a bind, but I don't think her solution will be in NJ.

But someone correct me if I'm mistaken. 

-------------------------------------------
Laura Ruvolo Lipp Esq.
Ruvolo Law Group, LLC
Morristown NJ
(973)993-9960
[email protected]
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 15:46
From: Sharon Clancy
Subject: civil union

Good question.

There have actually been certain situations (in certain counties) where a
dissolution has been allowed based upon an equity issue due to this
"wedlock" predicament.



I'm personally aware that it has occurred for PA residents. It's not
commonly done and jurisdiction is pretty narrow (no ED or custody issues
can be dealt with).



Jeffrey- if you'd like to contact me offline, we can discuss further and I
can provide you will some contacts that may help.



Thanks,

Jodi



Jodi A. Argentino, Esq.

Partner

argentino&jacobs-monogram-brown-2013

Argentino & Jacobs, LLC

The Victorian on Main

159 East Main Street, 2nd Floor

Rockaway, New Jersey 07866

(973) 710-4366 (phone)

(973) 710-4367 (fax)

<http: www.ajfamilylawyers.com/=""> www.ajfamilylawyers.com

<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]


Original Message------

It is my understanding that she cannot dissolve it in NJ because she does not meet the residency requirement.  This used to be a common problem in the days when Vermont was the only state to have civil unions and couples would travel up there for a romantic weekend, enter into the civil union, return back to NJ then later seek to dissolve the civil union if the relationship ended.  (Before Vermont dropped the minimum residency requirement a couple years ago.)

I realize she is in a bit of a bind, but I don't think her solution will be in NJ.

But someone correct me if I'm mistaken. 

-------------------------------------------
Laura Ruvolo Lipp Esq.
Ruvolo Law Group, LLC
Morristown NJ
(973)993-9960
[email protected]
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 15:46
From: Sharon Clancy
Subject: civil union

Good question.






</mailto:[email protected]></http:>

Good to know. Thanks.

-------------------------------------------
Robert Goldstein Esq.
Manalapan NJ
(732)972-1600
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 16:22
From: Jodi Argentino
Subject: civil union

There have actually been certain situations (in certain counties) where a
dissolution has been allowed based upon an equity issue due to this
"wedlock" predicament.



I'm personally aware that it has occurred for PA residents. It's not
commonly done and jurisdiction is pretty narrow (no ED or custody issues
can be dealt with).



Jeffrey- if you'd like to contact me offline, we can discuss further and I
can provide you will some contacts that may help.



Thanks,

Jodi



Jodi A. Argentino, Esq.

Partner

argentino&jacobs-monogram-brown-2013

Argentino & Jacobs, LLC

The Victorian on Main

159 East Main Street, 2nd Floor

Rockaway, New Jersey 07866

(973) 710-4366 (phone)

(973) 710-4367 (fax)

<http: www.ajfamilylawyers.com=""> www.ajfamilylawyers.com

<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]






</mailto:[email protected]></http:>

I have been able to secure dissolution for civil union partners who do
not meet the residency requirement in NJ. They are known as "wedlocked."

If the couple has a written agreement resolving property and
child-related issues and if they can prove to the satisfaction of the
court that they can not obtain any relief in the courts of the state
where they reside, I have been able to convince NJ judges to use their
equitable powers to waive the residency requirement.

Bill Singer

--
William S. Singer
Singer & Fedun, LLC
2230 Route 206
P.O. Box 134
Belle Mead, NJ 08502
908-359-7873
908-359-0128 (fax)
www.singerfedun.com
Fellow of American Academy of Assisted Reproductive Technology Attorneys
Follow me on Twitter billyatzion


Original Message------

It is my understanding that she cannot dissolve it in NJ because she does not meet the residency requirement.  This used to be a common problem in the days when Vermont was the only state to have civil unions and couples would travel up there for a romantic weekend, enter into the civil union, return back to NJ then later seek to dissolve the civil union if the relationship ended.  (Before Vermont dropped the minimum residency requirement a couple years ago.)

I realize she is in a bit of a bind, but I don't think her solution will be in NJ.

But someone correct me if I'm mistaken. 

-------------------------------------------
Laura Ruvolo Lipp Esq.
Ruvolo Law Group, LLC
Morristown NJ
(973)993-9960
[email protected]
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 15:46
From: Sharon Clancy
Subject: civil union

Good question.

Bill,

That's great to know!  So the couples in your experiences were able to address custody, ED, etc. in their agreements and have it incorporated into a FJOD?

I'm surprised to hear that PA won't offer a remedy to this couple considering the fact that they now allow same sex marriage.

-------------------------------------------
Laura Ruvolo Lipp Esq.
Ruvolo Law Group, LLC.
Morristown NJ
(973)993-9960
[email protected]
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 16:30
From: William Singer
Subject: civil union

I have been able to secure dissolution for civil union partners who do
not meet the residency requirement in NJ. They are known as "wedlocked."

If the couple has a written agreement resolving property and
child-related issues and if they can prove to the satisfaction of the
court that they can not obtain any relief in the courts of the state
where they reside, I have been able to convince NJ judges to use their
equitable powers to waive the residency requirement.

Bill Singer

--
William S. Singer
Singer & Fedun, LLC
2230 Route 206
P.O. Box 134
Belle Mead, NJ 08502
908-359-7873
908-359-0128 (fax)
www.singerfedun.com
Fellow of American Academy of Assisted Reproductive Technology Attorneys
Follow me on Twitter billyatzion

Laura:

Actually my cases have not involved children. so perhaps I overstated what can be done. If the children live in another jurisdiction, I am not sure that NJ judge could enter an Order covering them.

Another way to deal with this situation is for the couple to get married and then their state can grant them a divorce. They might do a pre-nup which would set forth their understandings of how property will be divided.

Bill

-------------------------------------------
William Singer Esq.
Belle Mead NJ
(908)359-7873
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 16:35
From: Laura Lipp
Subject: civil union

Bill,

That's great to know!  So the couples in your experiences were able to address custody, ED, etc. in their agreements and have it incorporated into a FJOD?

I'm surprised to hear that PA won't offer a remedy to this couple considering the fact that they now allow same sex marriage.

-------------------------------------------
Laura Ruvolo Lipp Esq.
Ruvolo Law Group, LLC.
Morristown NJ
(973)993-9960
[email protected]
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 16:30
From: William Singer
Subject: civil union

I have been able to secure dissolution for civil union partners who do
not meet the residency requirement in NJ. They are known as "wedlocked."

If the couple has a written agreement resolving property and
child-related issues and if they can prove to the satisfaction of the
court that they can not obtain any relief in the courts of the state
where they reside, I have been able to convince NJ judges to use their
equitable powers to waive the residency requirement.

Bill Singer

--
William S. Singer
Singer & Fedun, LLC
2230 Route 206
P.O. Box 134
Belle Mead, NJ 08502
908-359-7873
908-359-0128 (fax)
www.singerfedun.com
Fellow of American Academy of Assisted Reproductive Technology Attorneys
Follow me on Twitter billyatzion

In
the case I posted the parties have a child but Pa has handled the custody and
support issues in what I assume would be their equivalent of an FD
application. The parties only need a dissolution of the civil union.




Jeffrey S. Karl PA
Jeffrey S. Karl, Esq.
1820 Chapel Avenue
West
Suite 195
Cherry Hill, NJ 08002
Phone (856) 486-0707
Fax (856)
488-5690
www.jeffreyskarl.com




Original Message------

Laura:

Actually my cases have not involved children. so perhaps I overstated what can be done. If the children live in another jurisdiction, I am not sure that NJ judge could enter an Order covering them.

Another way to deal with this situation is for the couple to get married and then their state can grant them a divorce. They might do a pre-nup which would set forth their understandings of how property will be divided.

Bill

-------------------------------------------
William Singer Esq.
Belle Mead NJ
(908)359-7873
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 16:35
From: Laura Lipp
Subject: civil union

Bill,

That's great to know!  So the couples in your experiences were able to address custody, ED, etc. in their agreements and have it incorporated into a FJOD?

I'm surprised to hear that PA won't offer a remedy to this couple considering the fact that they now allow same sex marriage.

-------------------------------------------
Laura Ruvolo Lipp Esq.
Ruvolo Law Group, LLC.
Morristown NJ
(973)993-9960
[email protected]
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 16:30
From: William Singer
Subject: civil union

I have been able to secure dissolution for civil union partners who do
not meet the residency requirement in NJ. They are known as "wedlocked."

If the couple has a written agreement resolving property and
child-related issues and if they can prove to the satisfaction of the
court that they can not obtain any relief in the courts of the state
where they reside, I have been able to convince NJ judges to use their
equitable powers to waive the residency requirement.

Bill Singer

--
William S. Singer
Singer & Fedun, LLC
2230 Route 206
P.O. Box 134
Belle Mead, NJ 08502
908-359-7873
908-359-0128 (fax)
www.singerfedun.com
Fellow of American Academy of Assisted Reproductive Technology Attorneys
Follow me on Twitter billyatzion

Where does the other party reside?

-------------------------------------------
Robert Goldstein Esq.
Manalapan NJ
(732)972-1600
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 15:43
From: Jeffrey Karl
Subject: civil union

I know this has been discussed before but I do not recall what the answer was.  I have a potential client who lives in Pennsylvania and always has lived there.  She had a civil union in New Jersey some time ago and was told it cannot be dissolved in Pa. because they do not recognize civil unions there although same sex marriage is now legal in Pa.  Can the civil union be dissolved in NJ and if so what county would have jurisdiction?

-------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Karl Esq.
Cherry Hill NJ
(856)486-0707
-------------------------------------------

Both
parties reside in Pa.



Jeffrey S. Karl PA
Jeffrey S. Karl, Esq.
1820 Chapel Avenue
West
Suite 195
Cherry Hill, NJ 08002
Phone (856) 486-0707
Fax (856)
488-5690
www.jeffreyskarl.com




Original Message------

Where does the other party reside?

-------------------------------------------
Robert Goldstein Esq.
Manalapan NJ
(732)972-1600
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 15:43
From: Jeffrey Karl
Subject: civil union

I know this has been discussed before but I do not recall what the answer was.  I have a potential client who lives in Pennsylvania and always has lived there.  She had a civil union in New Jersey some time ago and was told it cannot be dissolved in Pa. because they do not recognize civil unions there although same sex marriage is now legal in Pa.  Can the civil union be dissolved in NJ and if so what county would have jurisdiction?

-------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Karl Esq.
Cherry Hill NJ
(856)486-0707
-------------------------------------------

NJ would not have jurisdiction.

-------------------------------------------
Robert Goldstein Esq.
Manalapan NJ
(732)972-1600
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2014 16:22
From: Jeffrey Karl
Subject: civil union

Both
parties reside in Pa.



Jeffrey S. Karl PA
Jeffrey S. Karl, Esq.
1820 Chapel Avenue
West
Suite 195
Cherry Hill, NJ 08002
Phone (856) 486-0707
Fax (856)
488-5690
www.jeffreyskarl.com

I have also had success dissolving the CU of a PA resident in NJ (Camden County). Similarly, I have had civil unions dissolved in PA prior to the change in PA law to allow same-sex marriages in Philadelphia County. I currently have similar cases pending. Unfortunately, there has been no uniform guidance as to how PA will handle CU's. From what we are seeing so far, it may very likely vary from county to county. Also, the court may not dissolve the CU even if the parties are also married. In one case, a court in Bucks county dissolved a marriage but not the CU of the same parties. Luckily, this was a VT CU and able to be dissolved in VT.

It seems that the custody/child support issues will need to be in PA regardless, however, under the UCCJEA.

I am happy to speak more.

Best,

Rebecca

Rebecca G. Levin, Esquire
Jerner & Palmer, P.C.
[email protected]

Offices:

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Philadelphia, PA 19144
Telephone: (215)843-6015
Fax: (215)843-6006

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www.jplaw.com

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Original Message------

I know this has been discussed before but I do not recall what the answer was.  I have a potential client who lives in Pennsylvania and always has lived there.  She had a civil union in New Jersey some time ago and was told it cannot be dissolved in Pa. because they do not recognize civil unions there although same sex marriage is now legal in Pa.  Can the civil union be dissolved in NJ and if so what county would have jurisdiction?

-------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Karl Esq.
Cherry Hill NJ
(856)486-0707
-------------------------------------------